« ELITE EIGHT: North & South Regions | Main | NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP »


EAST/WEST Semi-Final:

A: The average age of a non-domesicated animal can be found by adding:

The age of Grover Cleveland

when a school in the field of medicine first

opened in a New York Hospital.

Subtract the age, at the time of his death,

of the musical artist associated

(in a way) with the words 'I love you';

then add the age of a major Freudian related

disciple in the year two states were admitted

to the Union. Add the year the lady

J.V.F. won an Oscar. Subtract the number

of the session of Congress equated

with J.D.H., then subtract the year

"The School and Society" was published. Subtract

the number of letters in the title of a Mel Gibson

movie. Add the hours associated with a Mr. Rodgers,

then subtract the age of the pilot whose name

is hidden in this puzzle.

By this time, if correct calculations have been

made; subtractions and additions, herein as required, obviously; problem solved!

Z: If MM=6, KK=9 and RR=21, what does JJ=?  It should be noted that these four equations form a closed and complete set.


A: Using alphanumeric code (A=1, B=2, etc.), sum of the letters in the first name of the eulogist mentioned in the lyrics of a 1990s rock song whose title places it at a certain geographical demarcation that can be found in six states.  In one of those states, the demarcation (remarkably) passes less than 300 feet from another, more unique geographic demarcation, located in a town which shares its name with something that, according to legend, was invented in the 1820s by a cheating schoolboy.

Z: How many U.S. states contain a point that is due north of points in both the Atlantic (including the Gulf of Mexico) and Pacific Oceans?




In the East/West Semi for team A: It instructs - "then add the age of a major Freudian related desciple, the year two states were admitted to the Union." Is there a word missing after the word desciple?

There seems to be something very odd about this question. There is obviously an "AHA" moment required, that I'm not getting.

Posted by: Paula | Apr 11, 2005 4:17:17 PM

I haven't worked on much of this contest. But, in looking at the question about the Freudian related desciple (which should be disciple?), I would interpret it as the age of the disciple during the year two states were admitted to the Union. Maybe that means the age he/she turned on his/her birthday that year (since before the birthday, the age would be different from after the birthday)? I have no idea who it is, as I haven't looked.

Posted by: Monica/MLR | Apr 11, 2005 5:22:00 PM

Disciple and Monica's explanation are right (assume at the end of the year in question for the age of the person.)

Posted by: JmSR | Apr 11, 2005 6:11:24 PM

I also found looking back that some formatting and a critical part of the question were omitted. These have been replaced and will result in a deadline change.

Posted by: JmSR | Apr 11, 2005 6:24:27 PM

Makes MUCH more sense...

Thanks for the deadline change. I am feeling much more excited about the possiblity of finishing now!

Posted by: Paula | Apr 11, 2005 6:51:22 PM

I still have a concern about this question.

The addition of "The average age of a non-domesicated animal can be found by adding:" offers a bit of clarification. But the fact that there are MANY non-domesticated animals and MANY Mel Gibson movies, it seems that there could be MANY possible answers. Unless of course the question is more deceiving than it first appears...

Posted by: Paula | Apr 11, 2005 7:17:49 PM

I'm now convinced that this puzzle is more than it first appears to be...but I'm still clueless as to what to do...

Posted by: Paula | Apr 15, 2005 11:09:06 AM

We are at an impass. Unless a gentle nudge or some other type of hint about the "I love you" reference appears, it looks like it'll simply be one of those "best guess" stabs in the dark. So close and yet so far...

Posted by: DonV | Apr 18, 2005 1:31:15 AM

How's about a gentle nudge:

The song's actual title is a common euphemism for the phrase "I Love You" and the writer also co-wrote the line "Miss, could you please stand up so I can see the son rise?"

Posted by: JmSR | Apr 18, 2005 9:11:08 AM

The is a major Freudian disciple that was alive when on two seperate occassions, exactly 2 states were admitted to the union that year and in a third year more than two were admitted.

Posted by: Paula | Apr 18, 2005 10:42:33 AM

Thank you for the "I love you" hint. Very helpful. Is there something else to be read into the question concerning Mr. Rodgers? I have found no fewer than seven different Mr. Rodgers' who have a connection to seven differnt numbers of hours. Is there a way to narrow it down?

Posted by: DonV | Apr 20, 2005 1:55:34 AM

Mr. Rodgers did something: (two of these statements are true)
a. that is done nearly everyday.
b. for the first time before US involvement in World War I.
c. that is related to medicine.

Posted by: JmSR | Apr 20, 2005 2:07:12 PM

I meant to also include that Mr. Rodgers event was more than 15 years ahead of the year that the two states were admitted.

Posted by: JmSR | Apr 20, 2005 2:08:13 PM

St. D's-WI St. 35-48 Wisconsin St.

First Nursing School in Bellvue Hospital, 1873. G. Cleveland's age = 36
Harry Ruby,  1895-1974, "Three Little Words", age=79
1959, Hawaii and Alaska; Theodor Reik 1888-1969. age= 71
 Joan Van Fleet, best supporting actress, =1955
J. Dennis Hastert, Speaker of the House, 106th Congress, 1999=106
"The School and Society" published =1899
"Braveheart" letters = 10
First transcontinental airplane flight, from NY to Pasedena, by C.P. Rodgers, 1911, (with numerous stops)= 82 hours (plus 4 minutes, but only require hours)
Charles Bishop, young pilot who died when he crashed his training plane into a building. age= 15
Answer: 35, the average longevity of the African Elephant
The name "Charles Bishop" can be found thusly;  first letter in the last word of odd sentences (CHARLES) and the last name by the first letters of By, if, subtractions, here, obviously, problem....in the last paragraph.(BISHOP)

These are NASCAR Nextel Cup drivers' initials and their car numbers. Mark Martin is #6, Kasey Kahne is #9, Ricky Rudd is #21, and JJ, Jimmie Johnson, is #48. Moreover, these four drivers are the only current Nextel Cup drivers whose first and last initials are the same. Answer is 48.

Camden-UC/Sunny: 43-37 Camden

43. The song referred to is The Tragically Hip’s 1992 song “At the Hundredth Meridian,” whose lyrics implore the listener to “Get Ry Cooder to sing my eulogy.”   (The line of 100-degree longitude passes less than 300 feet from the geographic center of North America in the North Dakota town of Rugby, which apocryphally was invented at Rugby School in 1823 by William Webb Ellis, who during a soccer practice “picked up the ball and ran.”

Answer: 37

Easternmost reach of Pacific at Iqueque Chile is farther east than the
western border of Maine, so all 50 states have a point north of the
Pacific. Westernmost reach of Gulf of Mexico gets underneath eastern
North Dakota and the tier of states beneath it, so only the 11 Western
states plus AK and HI are too far west. 50 - 13 = 37.

Doesn't take anywhere near 2 hours, of course, so may miss the boat,
thus my "perhaps" in the subject. Just thought I'd send it in case you
want a quickie here and there, or you may use it as part of a more
complex clue, perhaps.

Posted by: JmSR | Apr 25, 2005 8:24:09 PM

A was written by Antoinette D'Ammora
Z was written by Stephen Williams

A was written by David Javerbaum
Z was written by Bob Lodge

Posted by: JmSR | Apr 26, 2005 9:10:49 AM

Did anyonyone else think that the east/west A question was to vague for accuracy?

I used Carl Jung as a Freudian disciple. And there are MANY Mel Gibson movies with a different number of letters.

Posted by: Paula | Apr 26, 2005 9:17:58 AM

Hi Paula! Again I apologize for the problems you had with my puzzle. In comparison to some of the other more difficult puzzles, (i.e. Bob's, Adam's, or Sean's "ENT/ELF" puzzle that we all adored!(Just kidding, Sean, it was well done.)mine was not as involved.
But as I said in the other post, since I constructed the puzzle knowing the answers, I couldn't see it from a solver's prespective.
My submissions in this site were first attempts at puzzle construction. I actually surprised myself that I was able to do what I did, but more surprised at Jm's acceptance of them!

Posted by: Toni | Apr 26, 2005 7:00:41 PM

My comment was not that your puzzle was "troublesome", as I think it is a little "questionable".

Say instead of Braveheart, I chose "Signs" or "The Passion of Christ". Wouldn't I get a whole different game score?

And I found lots of medical schools in New York...

I think the question is good, but I kept looking for a pattern or something that could verify that I had the right movie or the right disciple, etc. But then again, perhaps there was enough there and I just wasn't able to "put it all together".

If it makes you feel any better, neither of your questions frustrated me as much as the cryptoquote!

Posted by: Paula | Apr 26, 2005 7:42:47 PM

Yes, it does make me feel better. Thanks. The last thing I want to do is make enemies on this site.

And I agree about the CryptoQuote! I wanted to solve it since I like this type of puzzle, but its construction was beyond me. Just placing letters of jumbled words in their proper order would have been difficult enough without also having to decipher them, too! Having to arrange jumbled letters that don't make sense into real words was twice (or thrice) as difficult.

There were many puzzles I didn't do or try, but one I did work on gave me headaches! The Cryptic Crosswords! I'm not very good at them to begin with, and even with some hints I couldn't solve half the quotes.

Wonder what Jm has in store for the next marathon. I'm anxious to find out. Maybe I should stock up on aspirin.

Posted by: Toni | Apr 26, 2005 9:02:16 PM

I have to say that although many of the contestants on this site may have thought they were easy, the cryptic crosswords were my greatest victory!

I have always been TERRIBLE at them. Cryptic Crosswords (and Solitaire hangman - for a different reason) are the pages, and the only pages, that I totally ignore in my GAMES magazines. But since it was such an early round, I knew I couldn't ignore it.

So, after reading hints on how to solve on MANY web sites, I thought I probably cracked a few. And after a lot of headaches and I was left with only two unsolved, I noticed the abbreviation pattern, which helped me finish the other two.

I brought my words and the 84 to my lunch break. (Before I noticed the state codes) History, English, Math teachers...somebody would see the connection, but they all shook their heads.

I looked up rank by population and rank by area and order of admission and then on a whim I thought electoral vote? VOILA!

The next day when I brought my Aha! to lunch break, they all looked at me and called me a geek....a fellow math teacher did say "genius geek" :-)

Posted by: Paula | Apr 26, 2005 11:46:14 PM

The Grover Cleveland question: Whew, this one was strange. There were several schools that opened in New York during his life. The most prominent being the Bellvue School of Nursing, so we went with that.

Freud had several disciples (Jung, Adler, etc.), but one of the most fastidious (and the one which gave significance to the otherwise extraneous word "related") was his own daughter, Anna.

Since it seemed fruitless to arbitrarily pick a Mel Gibon movie (ranging from 5 to 29 letters), and finding the hidden pilot's name was next to impossible, it seemed prudent to find a Gibson movie, keying on the words "pilot and age". In "Forever Young", Mel played a pilot who was frozen and brought back to life. He lived to be 85 (had to do math to figure it out). Even though our numbers were way off, the final answer yielded the same Final Four winner.

Posted by: DonV | Apr 27, 2005 12:22:14 AM

By the way, it was a toss-up between Harry Ruby (writer) and Fred Astaire (who sang the song) because they were both musical artists associated with "Three Little Words". Fred died at age 88.

Posted by: DonV | Apr 27, 2005 12:43:11 AM

The inspiration for the cryptoquote was to create what most puzzlers would see as a relatively simple type of construction, twist with first a 'non-quote', and then snooker people with unusual words, like Moab, darjeeling, Onizuka, and (of course), Knyazhychi (Gesundheit!). I'm also not looking to make enemies, but hey - there have been much harder questions on this site in the past 2 years, so I have no regrets.

Posted by: Michael | Apr 27, 2005 6:44:12 AM

Paula, my family (my daughter especially) says I'm "obsessed" when I talk to them in regard to any current contest breakthroughs.
DonV, good work. I, too, had gotten answers to other puzzles that were 'close enough' to keep the results the same as if I'd gotten them correct. I made several good assumptions.
Even though I guessed wrong at the Championship, Wisconsin WAS in my Final Four. I just chose the wrong team to win.

Posted by: Toni | Apr 27, 2005 10:50:30 AM

Having solved the Cryptoquote, I can tell you that it was long and arduous. Darjeeling was the third word I came up with, after I found that the letter J did not fit as the 1st letter of any word.

Of course, I had much more time invested into the ENT/ELF puzzle, and ultimately failed to solve that one. I was always having a problem getting the leftover letters to spell a word (since all the other anagrammed letters made words). The 9-letter words "following" and "twentieth" were my two favorites to make it (using the additional clue 6,3,9,3). The closest I ever got was "Choose the following ten rest debts". But I couldn't find the elf in there!

Posted by: Jay Winter | Apr 27, 2005 7:31:25 PM

Post a comment

Commenters please note: do NOT discuss ANY contest information for a currently active contest outside of what is printed in GAMES magazine.